Friday, May 10, 2013

Interview: Khair Bukhsh Marri.



Hardly a government but still a government: Khair Baksh Marri


Veengas

Mr. Khair Bukhsh Marri doesn't speak but when he speaks then speaks and many faces get anger because he speaks what he sees and thinks. This interview has conducted especially for The Frontier Post. Today we are presenting his talks for our readers that what Balochistan thinks through Mr. Marri's views. Interview was conducted on 5th May, 2013)

Veengas: Do you think, is world still at cold war? Though, you have been analyzing all politics of the world, yet?

KBM: World never comes out from war. Sometimes, it is hot and cold. All people fought at war, as British and Roman, they both fought; not only this but before them many other people had been fighting. And world has others' people cold war.

KBM & Veengas. Photo by Saeed Lashari.
  
Veengas: So, Is world at hot or cold war?
KBM: Some people have cold war and like us, we have hot war.

Veengas: How is it hot war for you?
KBM: (Given slightly smiling) Balochistan has operation and we are receiving dead bodies that are why it is hot war for us.
Veengas: What are yours views at current situation of Pakistan means up coming Election 2013. Whether you agree or disagree?
KBM: I don't see any existence of Pakistan.
Veengas: But this is process ongoing, even in past you had been part of this political process then what do you think for it? And will there be next Government?
KBM: I don't understand this, so what should I see for?

Veengas: Election2013?
KBM: I don't see existence of Pakistan.
Veengas: Well, this is your point of view, nowadays this system has political process and election will be holding in four provinces of Pakistan. If election held and Balochistan assembly will be elected and then world sees that Balochistan Assembly being elected, so where your stand will be? Because, this is political process and none can deny it. Don't you think so?

KBM: While talking (KBM seemed unwilling to reply on it) I have no an idea, either I am making fool myself or sane; as I already told you that this state has no any kind of existence. People and men are but what should I call it? Shall I call it state or game? Or robot, that is being operated. Bengal said that Pakistan is an agent of America or Imperial Power. Where is Pakistan? How do I call it? Is it Army or Punjab?
I am sorry but whether is it yours or mine? KBM coded Sindhi sentence that in Sindhi we heard, what's your message for Nation? Then, where is Pakistan? First British ran it and then now America runs. Therefore, which Pakistan, you do call.
Veengas: As you are saying, Pakistan has no existence and being supported by US or else Power.
KBM: I meant, we understood as for State or country. But here Punjabi and Muhajirs are calling themselves as Nation. Which Nation or State is? Here is, only powerful rules.

Veengas: You have coded international powers, how do you see when international power makers; sometimes is given lollipop to Pakistan and offered tea parties to Nationalist groups, is it not double role?
KBM: I don't understand. Who is supporting?
Veengas: soft attitude towards nationalists, who are living  abroad as your Son Hyrberyair Marri.
KBM: (given smiling) I think that is only one individual man who morally supports.
Veengas: Well, don't you believe that it is changing within USA and now people are coming up who supports nationalists' politics?
KBM: (While laughing) I am unable to say anything but now it happens.
Veengas: Then, do you think that is it blackmailing tool by international power makers, if you didn't follow our orders, we can support them (Nationalist Politics).
KBM: (Strongly said) why does need to blackmailing? They become quickly afraid of one single threat. Even now China is showing them its eyes.
Veengas: Whom?
KBM: These slaves of America.

Khair Bukhsh Marri. Photo by Saeed Lashari


Veengas: How do you see case of ex-dictator Musharraf, who is now in court? This is first time in history of Pakistan. While, his Palace has converted into sub jail. Will establishment use his case as tissue paper for cleaning up its face?
KBM: Judges have given orders for Balochistan, who paid attention at them. Why are you given it importance?
Veengas: Entire world is giving importance.
KBM: (While smiling) this world is of Cats, rats, dogs and loins. This world is divided. Powerful man kills rats and cats. You can look at Saudi Arabs and international powers, what have they strength?
Veengas: So, you don't give importance to Musharraf's case?
KBM: Musharraf said that it was done by whole army and sometimes, said it was done by one man. Then, what is this? Who did it? Then, all are involved? Why are you asking such kind of questions?
Veengas: Responded his question that world needs to understand Musharraf's case.
KBM: Which world?
Veengas: At least, I cannot say cats or dogs' world. I am talking about mine world of journalism. KBM sahib, his case is nothing for you. Though, Musharraf applied bloody policy on Balochistan. Hence, none Dictators of Pakistan presented before court but this is first time that Musharraf is in. Still, you don't see change, hidden hands which are called as establishment, have been done badly with Balochistan since 1948, and now one dictator is in court. Either is it Drama?
KBM: In my own words, I never call it change but yes you can say drama. He will never get death punishment.

Veengas: If Musharraf came in your hands, what will you do?
KBM: (laughing with joy) If he came in my hands, they will never give me access towards him. I will have to think, what shall I do?
Veengas: Musharraf said, he never killed late Benazir Bhutto and late Akbar Bugti. Who killed them?
KBM: If he didn't kill them, he might finger-pointing about to Pathans, Punjabis or Army (because Pathans are also in army) we (Baloch) are deprived. (KBM suddenly counted Naya Pakistan and said that I cannot distinguish when people are saying, they will make Naya Pakistan, at least first define what old Pakistan is?
Veengas: Responded that it is political slogan. We don't talk now it. So, KBM Sahib, Mr. Akhter Mengal has brought Six Points and people were tried to compare him with Mujeeb Rehman. Would you like to comment on it?
KBM: Genuine point has forgotten. First he should show his status? Baloch are in abroad, Baloch are in Mountains and Baloch lives in Balochistan. Akhter Mengal is a man of Sarkar (Government).
Veengas: Which Government (Sarkar)?
KBM: Government is not government but is government.
Veengas: Akhter Mengal said in one statement that my father was willing to … KBM interrupted and said that you have me fighting them.
Veengas: No … No KBM sahib, I wanted to make historical record as you are historical figure and to save your words on pages of history.
KBM: Given Smiling: so, this is a gamble.

Veengas: No … well, life itself is a gamble. I wanted to ask you that Mr. Bhutto introduced ordinance against Sardari System (Feudal System) in 1976 but Mr. Akhter Mengal said that his father was willing to remove Sardari System that he couldn't because of ZA Bhutto late. Do you believe that Mengals' Politics, willing to abolish Sardari System?
KBM: Sardari System is centuries. It is hardly to remove; hence it will take time and need to struggle against it and so ZA Bhutto said for removing feudal system but still feudal lords are in power. Why only Sardars are counted? Here are choudharies, Khans and Waderas. People asked me regarding sardari system. We want to abolish it but it needs revolution.
Veengas: We would like to count subcontinent, it has feudal system as family density if Balochistan entered into revolution, and so do you think Tribe system will be ended?
KBM: It may take time to be happened.
Veengas: Would you mind, if people call you Sardar?
KBM: Sardar is traditionally named. Nowadays, people are called me, Nawab. It was titled by British government; it was not in British government.
Veengas: Would you anger if people called you Nawab?
KBM: Now all angers become cold.

Veengas: We are hearing FIR regarding Benazir Bhutto late and Akbar Bugti late but no FIR for Balaach Marri, why?
KBM: If I say anything for Benazir Bhutto's case, Sindhi people would get anger. Akbar Bugti and Balaach both were killed by collective interests.
Veengas: Who killed Benazir Bhutto late?
KBM: I have doubts, I don't have evidence but I think, she was killed by Mullahs.
Veengas: Don't you think that in the name of terrorism, she was killed because terrorism has no FIR?
KBM: In my view, Terrorism, means when people are afraid of your name. This is government (Sarkar) tool and it is target killing whatever Mullah (extremists) do it is Target killing. Terrorism is in Balochistan where we Baloch are receiving brutal dead bodies. You cannot imagine but terrorism is in Balochistan.
Veengas: Balochistan is burning and now an election is going to be held.
KBM: (Slightly given smiling) which election is?
Veengas: You talked about terrorism. Recently Balochistan faced terror attacked by lashkar e taiba on Hazar community? What are reasons behind it? Some people are saying that it is preplanned and wanted to divert attention on Balochistan's real issue.
KBM: These people are closed to government. Iran and Suaidi Arabia are interests in Balochistan. Baloch are given them more trouble than else. If Balochistan doesn't remain with Pakistan, Pakistan will no remain.

Veengas: You had spent time in Afghanistan. Would you differentiate between indigenous Afghan and Taliban or Mujaheedin, meant both are two sides of one coin.
KBM: Indigenous Afghan, who are? Hazarra, Pashtun, Uzbiks or Tajiks?
Veengas: Then, to whom you call to?
KBM: Now you again have me
Fighting them.
Veengas: No KBM sahib just wanted to clear on it.
KBM: What can I say?
Veengas: In Afghanistan, some tribes are much closed to India?
KBM: If I were asking questions and you would have answered.
Veengas: laughing: Thanks, I am asking questions.
KBM: You have me fighting them.
Veengas: Well, what's drama?
KBM: Of course, India will give tough time to Pakistan. As you asked regarding on nations, I think; people should research on it.
Veengas: I have read that if India and Iran to be built Chahabar port then it will connect Iran and Afghanistan and at last, Pakistan's passageway gets less importance. Is it making change in south Asia?
KBM: Where is Pakistan? It is international power players.
Veengas: You are denying Pakistan's existence if there is to be held election and then Pakistan government will say that Baloch people are willing to see parliament system. As vote has importance and it is part of political process, how will you face it?
KBM: Pakistan says, Baloch are Muslims and ours friends. Does anyone have proof for it? For time being it is going on. We see Hamid Karzai's government in Afghanistan; would you call it peoples' government?
Veengas: People are saying, those are in mountains, will be exhausted soon. Will it happen?
KBM: if young got weary, we old Baloch much to be tired. Let's see either we are tired or to be remained stay in mountains.
KHB & Veengas. Photo by saeed Lashari


Veengas: If Akhter Mengal entered into Parliament and says Balochistan's problem has solution in parliament. What will be your stand soft attitude towards him, or as hard stance as to establishment.
KBM: Baloch are stand up, will as stand up as they are. Only atom bombs can remove them.

Veengas: Where is solution in mountains or on table?
KBM: I don't know and nor can I say anything but if we had to come on table and movements will make it way after than we will see it. By the way this area is disturbed and it is area of disaster. Who will win and loss? Iran, China and Afghanistan will never get peace. They will never sit peacefully in area.
Veengas: Who will?
KBM: Those are doing in Balochistan.
Veengas: You meant, those are in mountains, will never give them serene path?
KBM: I cannot say anything.
Veengas: You were member of NAP (National Awami Party) and it was banned because it was closed to Afghanistan and against Pakistan's ideology.
KBM: Those days were my primary days of life.
Veengas: Does Afghanistan have influence on Balochistan.
KBM: Commonly, it has influence but now Iran and Afghanistan both have confined Balochistan. Iran, Afghanistan and Sindh all have our lands though GM Sayed said that don't talk on boundaries.
Veengas: You coded that Sindhi will get anger if you said?
KBM: Balaach once said that Karachi is ours. But Sindhis said, not to disturb boundaries of province.

Veengas: How many boundaries are? Which Balaach claimed?
KBM: (Given Smiling) leave it now.
Veengas: What is solution of Missing persons? From where, they will bring out?
KBM: Bring out from graveyard.
Veengas: Who will bring?
KBM: Slave of America.
KBM: he himself said that Muhajirs claim for Jinnah Province?
Veengas: If you wanted to claim for boundaries?
KBM: Question is, whether now in such circumstance, this question is valid or not? Now you have given place to Muhajirs.
Veengas: For example if Balochistan is to be freed and Pakistan is divided. Would you think on it that there might to be fight among states means civil wars? In Past, had been seen division of subcontinent but we are facing problems in this region.
KBM: Civil war, between Baloch and Sindhis?
Veengas: No… State to State.
KBM: You meant, Baloch and Sindhi or Sindhi Baloch?

Veengas: I am asking you that if by chance Pakistan is to be divided and all provinces will become independent states, as all provinces are connected with each other, so there may be war on resources.
KBM: Yes, wars have been going in this region. All powerful players get influence on others' resource.
Veengas: will there be war or peace?
KBM: There may be peace and war.
Veengas: Why you are criticizing America? Even, Baloch who are in abroad have soft gesture towards democratic countries and you seem follower of Marxist. Is there communication gap between you and Baloch who lives in abroad?
KBM: I talk straight forward. People like you come and talk to me. Russia and America both are loins. And powerful give harm weaker. Loin never eats rats but rats are being eaten by someone else.
Veengas: People even ask us that why Baloch leaders don't work on development even Federal government gives funds as it was given during Musharraf era and PPP government.
KBM: Powerful always says weaker that we have given them developments. Those are making weaker us. How will build up colonies and make slaves? Which rulers have given money from their own homes, who give hospitals and roads that these are for poorest people. When British came and called Golden Sparrow to subcontinent but later they made subcontinent a sparrow without feathers (Ganji-Chiriya).

Veengas: Many people think tribes' people are hurdle in development works?
KBM: Tribes are helpless before powerful and they are slaves of them. A man Sandmen Britain, who wanted to pimps and many people, supported him.
Veengas: Entire world is against Terrorism instead terrorists must be ended. Terrorists are non state actors but they seems powerful than state actors. What are reasons, they are growing in the world?
KBM: International power players as china, Russia, Europe and America are themselves terrorists and given birth terrorist.
Veengas: Where would you put Saudi Arabia's role?
KBM: Saudi Arabia is slave of USA.
Veengas: Do you believe that Russia will remain silent and never reacted, when USA entered into Afghanistan and started to war against terrorism?
Because in past during Mujaheedin decade, Russia fell down in Afghanistan.
KBM: I don't believe but I wish, Russia might have given trouble USA because this is human phenomena.

Veengas: Why only Afghanistan is darling to British, Russia and America?
KBM: I have heard, they want to get access to hot waters and as you mentioned name central Asia and South Asia, they have kept eye on its wealth.
Veengas: Why only criticizes America, hence NATO has many power players. Isn't American phobia?
KBM: (while laughing) Yes, we have many kings but final decision to be finalized by USA. That's why I do criticize.

KBM asked, why are you asking international questions?
Veengas: I am surprised to listen, yours criticizing though nationalists' politics have soft attitudes of international powers. Will you ignore that when international power supported Baloch leaders in abroad after than Balochistan case came at international scene? While criticizing only one and to leave other for example, here all feudal lords are exploiting but we put one and start to criticize one, is it Justice?
KBM: Does World have Justice? Why are you giving me trouble?
Veengas: Who is giving to support Baloch?
KBM: In your point, who will be?
Veengas: I don't know that's reason I am asking.
KBM & Veengas. Photo by Saeed Lashari


KBM: Shall I speak truth or else…?
Veengas: I believe, you stand by your principles. OK we ask that there is doubt, India is in Afghanistan so may India support?
KBM: India is only for Balochistan? I suppose, India is there for trade and corridors.
Veengas: Would it possible, India gets more influence than China in South Asia?
KBM: If international powers give them support so maybe..!
Veengas: India or China?
KBM: I go to market and see things of China, including China; is taking our gold, too and have access to ports in Balochistan.

Veengas: Can we back to the history for a moment? We have noticed that in Balochistan, much is being criticized ZA Bhutto's military operation. Was he independent to launch operation on Balochistan?
KBM: I don't think so, he was independent for launching operation on Balochistan but yes he was very clever and cruel person.
Veengas: Whether ZA Bhutto wanted to anger at those persons who disagreed him or it was launched by military?
KBM: To me, it was launched by military and ZA Bhutto tried to maintain his authoritarian role. ZA Bhutto chanted slogan, bread, cloth and shelter and how much he acted on? Now he poor man is no more. And Bilawal Bhutto Zardari. What has gone?
Veengas: What's problem if he uses her mother's name? I myself use my Mother's name and I proud to be daughter of my Mother.
KBM: laughed and said I meant, it is like that if anyone's wife Britain and her children code them first Britain and then father. Does it make sense?
Veengas: OK fine we can say that maybe it is political step. Well we leave it now and let's talk on Mr. Zardari's point when he said that Baloch must learn from our patience.
KBM: Now he is in power. When he comes out then we will ask him. Mr. KBM criticized Bhutto and coded that he was son of Hindu lady.
Veengas: On based of these things, do you analysis ZA Bhutto?
KBM: Never, but we are gathering all things and making our sense for him that how much he was revolutionary?
Veengas: Was ZA Bhutto involved in dilemma of Bengal?
KBM: I have heard …
Veengas: Why you are saying you have heard? You were at that period and analyzed situation.
KBM: (passed smiling) there is difference between facts and analysis. As people are saying that USA or India is helping us but what type of help we can receive? We don't want to be slave before getting independency. This is not form of helping, neither alive and nor dying.
Veengas: But... Who was involved in Bengal? Were they not able to digest Mujeeb's six points or long continuity of injustice?
KBM: They were supposed to prolong slavery of Bengal but India liberated Bengal.
Veengas: You have used word liberty? Was Bengal slave?
KBM: If India didn't come, they would have slaved Bengal.
Veengas: In Pakistan, how do you feel any kind difference between dictatorship and democracy?
KBM: Do we need parliament as Akhter Mengal says or treatment? They have legitimized its dictatorship. Their five years democracy depends on injustice. Without Army, they are unable to do anything. Army has own limitation but here is not like that. Veengas: What are yours views on Election 2013?
KBM: first they must leave job of capitalist.
Veengas: What is capitalist in your philosophy?
KBM: No single human slave of other human and nowhere exploitation of humans
Veengas: Which philosophy has long life, violence or non violence? As we have example of Mahatma Gandhi.
KBM: No doubt Mahatma Gandhi made his own ground and changed things but non violence later converted into violence.
Veengas: How do you see late Akbar Bugti and Attauallah Mengal?
KMB: I spent time with late Akbar Bugti during studies. I don't want to say for Attauallah Mengal. Neither he is socialist, nor is nationalist.
Veengas: Then, what he is? Should give name?
KBM: (While laughing) don't create trouble for me.
Veengas: Extremist elements are growing in Sindh and Balochistan? What are reasons? Some people are saying that forces are being developed to encounter others.
KBM: I don't understand, maybe it has limited time duration or less impact.
Veengas: How do you see politics of Sindh and Balochistan?
KBM: Sindh has education and I hoped that they have strong and mature nationalist politics even we Baloch have only spirit.
Veengas: How long will spirit alive?
KBM: We are awakening them. Our people have spirit but they need education, not only degrees but socialist. Moreover, we have very limited resources but our enthusiasm, makes us alive.

Veengas: Journalists are being killed in Balochistan. Recently, people say that freedom fighters are killing them. I don't have evidence but I wanted to know that how much this is fact? If this happened, don't you think that by this way your struggle will be criticized?
KBM: I don't believe in killing and I don't know about it. (Suddenly, man of KBM interrupted and said that Muslim Difa Council of Army has accepted that they have killed journalists.
Veengas: You said that religious elements might have killed Benazir Bhutto. Do you think that extremists are powerful, who did this act without any support?
KBM: It is very difficult for me, Army has religious elements and ISI has, too. USA didn't help and Army is religious.

Veengas: What is politics?
KBM: Freedom, Justice and Humanity.
Veengas: What is politics of Balochistan?
KBM: Akhter Mengal and Raisani, all want to Pakistani Politics and they are opportunists. Is democracy need or belief for them? Those Baloch are in mountain, they do work for Balochistan. Akhter Mengal said that he will bring change through vote and he was unaware when Nawaz Sharif was about to explosion. We will pick gun up if other has guns and if anyone talks, we talk.

Veengas: Balochistan and Sindh political situation, where it leads?
KBM: I hope that both join struggle and solve its common problem.
Veengas: You have said that you hate killing but those are in mountain, they are fighting. Don't you think now time has come and need to talk on political order for solution?
KBM: I am old man and I will not talk behalf of them. Many times, we cheated by them. What did with Nouroz Khan, NAP, and brought Quran but their brutal power doesn't stop. We don't talk. Once Nelson Mandela wrote, white man we want to talk to you. And they assumed that they are tired and sign of defeat. So we will never talk.
Veengas: You prefer to fight?
KBM: No … we have no choice except fighting. Personally, I believe that there is no time for talks.

Veengas: Was Mr. Jinnah secular?
KBM: You asked his little brother (Bhutto) and now Mr. Jinnah. You can ask his relatives. I don't know.
Veengas: Will Election be held in Balochistan on 11 May?
KBM: Those want to Pakistan they will vote and those who don't want; will never vote.
Veengas: What will you do on 11 May?
Veengas: What will Baloch do on 11 May?
KBM: (Loudly laughing) you want to know under ground activities.
Veengas: No… well what people will do on 11 May in Balochistan? Do they watch only TV?
KBM: I can only say that Baloch have given up their lives and because of their sacrifices, Baloch should think before voting. therefore, I would say them, No Vote.

Veengas: Thank You.
KBM: I am glad and Thank You.

Originally published in The Frontier Post Interview Khair Bukhsh Marri on 9th May, 2013

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